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Star Trek

Discussion in 'Shows' started by Mouseberger, Jan 22, 2017.

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Best Star Trek

  1. The Original Series

    5 vote(s)
    16.7%
  2. The Animated Series

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. The Next Generation

    16 vote(s)
    53.3%
  4. Deep Space Nine

    7 vote(s)
    23.3%
  5. Voyager

    1 vote(s)
    3.3%
  6. Enterprise

    1 vote(s)
    3.3%
  7. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Trilby

    Trilby Local Nut

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    I thought that was the progressive future we'd be in by now.
     
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  2. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    I don't think I'd like living on Earth during this part of the Star Trek timeline -- what with the Eugenics Wars, World War 3, then the "post-atomic courts of horrors."
     
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  3. Trilby

    Trilby Local Nut

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    I suppose we'd have to endure all this before any true progress is achieved.
     
  4. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    I hope not.

    If one could live in the ST universe, it could be nice to be a Q. But if Voyager is part of it, that means a civil war. After a long period of stagnation with "nothing left to say."
     
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  5. Erika

    Erika RL incel hunter

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    I very much liked reading your review, and seriously, out of the net this is one of the best/kindest I've seen.

    Let's also be real as they redone the Klingons as super living war machine animals ( kinda offensive a way with the race bait move...) they are now hugely stronger and bigger than humans in TNG we found they have fail safes and spare bones etc like 2 hearts because they are a combat species. Yet, Michael kinda you know just killed one as a 105 lb girl.

    That's like baby Mary Kate Olson Dropping Mike Tyson in his prime. Yea I'm sooo scared of the Klingons when Kate Moss can apparently drop one. And as I said before, it ruined the literal first interaction with the new "super klingon" because Well fuck it Mary Sue. Ep 3 she stone cold stunners one of their battle ships and they quit the war, because why the fuck not? I think that was just an AWFUL mistake to make in plot.
     
  6. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    Does the "Worf Explanation" from DS9 still apply to the new Klingons?
     
  7. Erika

    Erika RL incel hunter

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    Different timelines, so I'd assume no.
     
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  8. Sad Ken

    Sad Ken Horrible Cunt

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    This is nothing new though. Apart from Worf, most Klingons suck when they fight a main character. Gowron more or less immediately dies from two stab wounds that an actual human living right now could potentially have survived with today's medical treatment. Re-watch the boarding scene in Way of the Warrior and see how many trained Klingon warriors Kira and Dax dispense with. Nana Visitor and Terri Farrell aren't any bigger or more physically robust than Soneque Martin-Green, and neither Trill or Bajorans are stated to have above average strength.

    I guess it's a little more overt a mis-match in Discovery because the Klingons look like they're multiple times as strong as a human and have redundant organs, as well as just it just being canon that they're like that. But Burnham at least had a 1v1 with the albino Klingon and used a phaser on T'Kuvma, whilst Kira fought off 3 with her bare hands and Dax took out at least 4 with a Bat'leth

    Really what bothered me is that in ToS the Klingons represented Soviet Russia. Therefore not only were they physically and technologically a match for Kirk & Co, they also looked and acted like a plausible intellectual match for them. They got a bit more caricatured in TNG with the addition of the warrior culture, more overtly aggressive tendancies and occasional bouts of being a little stupid (Quark trying to explain financial dealings to the High Council) for comedy effect, but they're still by and large an intellectual match for humans. Sisko and Martok speak on equal terms about both business and personal matters, Duras, although a coward, is clearly quite intelligent, and Worf is perfectly capable of serving in Starfleet. As a matter of fact he's considered an exceptionally good officer.

    Discovery Klingons just came across as being primitive. I can't imagine T'Kuvma or any other Discovery Klingon sitting at Ops on the Enterprise. Yeah, I know when you put any thought into it they can't be actual neandarthals because they have ships and technology and such, but why portray them in a way that (probably unintentionally) makes them come across as big, stupid, clumsy thugs that in intellectual terms look miles away the people they're supposed to be fighting? It doesn't work for me.

    There's no conceivable in-universe way you could reconcile Discovery Klingons with TOS or TNG Klingons.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
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  9. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    I heard the explanation is that the Klingon Empire is interstellar, so not every Klingon looks the same.

    My "headcanon canon" of Star Trek excludes the JJ Abrams remakes, Discovery, and the 70s cartoons.

    Enterprise and Voyager are questionable.
     
  10. Sad Ken

    Sad Ken Horrible Cunt

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    That was suggested when the pictures of the Klingons first leaked, but:

    It's not mentioned or even hinted at in the pilot. Plus the leaders of the 24 "great houses", therefore presumably a representative section of Klingons from every part of the Empire show up and they all basically look like T'Kuvma. They have different ridge patterns, but they all have the elongated heads, no hair, the claws, the recessed nostrils and the ears built into the skull.

    Not to mention that even if ToS and TNG Klingons had turned up, it'd be implausible anyway. The Klingon Empire has existed on an interstellar basis at most for 1000 years. it's not really believable that a complicated, sentient mammal could develop such different physical characteristics in that timespan. Bacteria or a small invertebrate? Yeah. A Klingon? No. It'd be like some of the population of the earth had elongated heads and ears and nostrils recessed into their skull because they diverged from the rest of us around 1000 CE.

    To me it looks like they changed it for the sake of changing it.

    It's pretty much impossible to put Abramsverse & Discovery in the same place as the first five TV series. Kurtzman sort of conceded as much on Abramsverse and said in an interview that maybe it was an alternative reality even before Nero went back in time. To be honest, trying to treat it as just time travel really grated with me, because normally in Star Trek, if you fuck the timeline up, you have unfuck it up. There's no multiverse theory in "City on the Edge" or "First Contact". They have to fix the damage to the timeline. That means that if Abramsverse is part of the main canon, the other series apart from Enterprise canonically don't exist anymore. The Federation couldn't follow the same progression from the 23rd to 24th centuries with one of its founder worlds destroyed, and Tuvok is probably never born because his parents were most likely killed in the destruction of Vulcan.

    They're trying to say that Discovery is part of the same universe as TOS etc., but it just doesn't work with those Klingons. I could suspend disbelief with ships, uniforms and within reason, technology, but the Klingons are too far for me.

    There's nothing massively canon-breaking in The Animated Series, it's just silly more than anything. As for Voyager and Enterprise. They're clumsy with the canon, and they do completely break the Borg, but you can kind of explain some of it away. Some.
     
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  11. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    Why are the people behind modern Star Trek so fixated on remaking TOS and breaking continuity? There's a whole universe out there and plenty of time after the 24th century.

    I like to call JJ Abrams "Cleaver Of Continuity." Star Wars split into canon and "Legends" after Force Awakens, and of course Star Trek isn't what it used to be.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
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  12. Sad Ken

    Sad Ken Horrible Cunt

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    I think it's partly because reboots are fashionable and partly because they'd have to come up something completely new to drive the storyline. If you go into the immediate post Voy & Nemesis period, you can't do much with the Klingons cos their alliance with the Federation is pretty much cemented after the Dominion War. The Cardassians are totally fucked after the war. Janeway arguably has fucked up the Borg, and the Romulan homeworld is destroyed 8 years after Nemesis, so you can't do a lot with them. Who's the antagonist? What do you mean go centuries ahead or come up with something new for the late 24th century? That requires effort and risk. We can't have that anymore.

    Star Trek Online set in the early 25th century and the stories have potential and good moments, but it's undermined by the game's lack of non-combat gameplay, patchy mechanics and the player character's utter lack of agency. It's also become rather rudderless since the Iconian Arc was wrapped up.

    I did quite like it when you go back in time with Sela to the destruction of the Iconian homeworld with the intention of stopping any Iconians from escaping to ensure their civilisation is wiped out because you're losing a war with them. But then you discover that the Iconians were a completely peaceful society in stark contrast to their callous, destructive and warlike attitude in the present, and instead decide help them escape. Until Sela gets pissed at you for forgetting your original mission, and tries to kill them in revenge for the destruction of Romulus, thus setting off the events that ultimately resulted in the Iconians setting off the Hobus Supernova and destroying Romulus. Pre-destination much, you stupid bitch?

    Personally I'd love someone to find 5 seasons of TNG that were recorded and kept secret for 20 years, but that's just idle fantasy on my part.
     
  13. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  14. Erika

    Erika RL incel hunter

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    One thing I've heard mentioned a few times and makes me chuckle is, Worf we know is a badass, the show keeps telling us. But in TNG he almost always gets his ass kicked, to prove how big a threat the enemy is.
    DS9 this trend kicks back as the story gave a much bigger threat arc, than TNGs "of the week". I just find it funny we know he's tough but he loses 90% of fights.
     
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  15. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    Funny you should mention that -- I saw a video compilation on that very thing yesterday.
     
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  16. Trilby

    Trilby Local Nut

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    Poor Worf.

    EDIT: Must suck to end up a pushover.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
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  17. Holdek

    Holdek Well-Known Member

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    The Klingons in Discovery are like what Klingons would look like if they could have Downs Syndrome tbh.

    I'll keep watching the series though as the special effects are pretty cool and the plot is intriguing enough so far. Although I don't get why the main female character has a man's name. When I read an article about the show before the premier I just assumed it was a typo for "Michele."

    (It kind of got me in a Star Trek kick so I watched a couple of episodes from the other shows. However now I can safely say I probably won't watch anymore Enterprise or Voyager eps no matter how interesting their descriptions are because I have to conclude that the writing/directing/acting on those shows just suck. Sorry fam.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  18. Sad Ken

    Sad Ken Horrible Cunt

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    Apparently it's a thing Bryan Fuller does. It's just needless pretentiousness and distraction imo.

    So Ep 3 review:

    What a complete clusterfuck. The pacing was all over the place, and in a strange way I can't pin down what's the actual problem with it. I had the same feeling at times in Ep. 1. Everyone on the Discovery except Saru and Miss Neurotic was irrationally cuntish and the captain comes across as a weirdo who probably eats children or something. And I couldn't make out half the stuff he said. Actually in general people just seem to talk too damn fast in this series. Burnham was much more reserved and humble, which is understandable after six months in prison, but that was about the only improvement.

    Last but not least, the shuttle pilot falling off the side of the shuttle when space mites were trying to eat it or whatever was just ludicrous. Are you seriously telling me she wouldn't come to an all stop to do an EVA?

    On the whole I thought this episode was a visual and narrative mess. Maybe I just can't appreciate fine art.
     
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  19. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    I saw the first episode of Enterprise recently. It doesn't seem bad. Then again, I've only seen the first one.
     
  20. Holdek

    Holdek Well-Known Member

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    Your mileage (light years, heh) may vary. Enterprise isn't terrible (and it's better than Voyager). To me it just seems like mediocre Trek, but it will do if you need a fix or you just want something to watch to pass the time. But since I have unwatched TOS, TNG, and DS9 episodes waiting for me I'm just going to pass.

    I watched the third episode of Discovery last night. It's a cool show but I'm not sure if it's Trek. Very different. Has more of an Aliens/Battlestar Galactica feel. At least they addressed the elephant in the room ("Michael" being a male name). It was seriously distracting lol.
     
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