Let's Read Ellen Fein and Sherry Schneider's The Rules series

This is a spin off from the Valentine's Day thread:

Back in the 90s and 2000s, there was an entire dating book series known as The Rules. The Rules is basically a book of rules of dating for women which guarantees you will meet Mr. Right (and if you don't, then you will have your dignity intact... supposedly). I first learned about this series when my aunt who was newly divorced and I was 16 and at the age of wanting to date bought me this book and I read it and frankly... it kind of makes you seem like a huge bitch while doing it and would probably make a decent guy think you aren't interested and pull away from you to respect your boundaries if you follow them to the letter.

I have "The Rules" "The Rules for Online Dating" and the "Rules for Marriage"

I have read the rules of Online Dating, The Rules, and The Rules for Marriage a while ago and they are all pretty awful, but I thought I'd break them down chapter by chapter to see how awful they are. I kind of want to do The Rules for Online dating just from the perspective of someone who met her husband online and The Rules for Marriage, but I wouldn't be opposed to doing the original, standard, The Rules too.

I think you can get a PDF of the original Rules for free online if you want to help. I am thinking I will start with The Rules for Marriage. Hopefully I won't get so busy that I forget about this.

 

You realize just because someone looks happy doesn't mean they aren't happy just saying

To a point, but if it is basically a huge slog something is wrong

Basically, it goes on saying that unlike The Rules, marriage is long term, it isn't a diet, but a lifelong maintenance plan, a lifestyle change and this is more about keeping him and doing what it takes to make him happy.

If you have to constantly carry the mental load, then you probably will not be happy and it will lead to resentment if he is not doing the same for you. Also, nagging is different than speaking up and keeping him accountable, if you are not constantly pestering him every single time you talk, then you aren't nagging, you are just voicing your concerns.

Which is totally a recipe for disaster if your husband doesn't reciprocate. The reason why he doesn't have to do it is because people don't expect men to do it.

Bitch, I am only reading this book to make fun of how insane this advice is.

If he is not happy talking about your problems with friends and family, then that definitely sounds like a red flag

Isn't fixing a marriage a team effort? If you, the woman is reading the book, it isn't your husband that is unhappy, but it is likely you that is unhappy so it might be something your husband needs to do to make you happy rather than something you need to change.

Really? What guy thinks that? Also, as you find out, most guys would love all of that advice this book gives because it basically has you submitting to him and treating him like a king while he does absolutely no work. Most asshole guys who would normally have a problem with you reading self help books would love that advice if it means you basically become a tradwife for them.

Maybe it is because men aren't expected by society to put thought into those things and we need to raise expectations. Also, this came out in the late 90s early 2000s, but I feel a lot of things have changed and women my age and younger expect much more emotional maturity in men and have higher behavioral expectations which is for the better. Honestly, what a lot of these incels don't understand is that a lot of women are put off by them because they are not at all emotionally mature. So yes, women do have higher standards of men, but it isn't looks, but emotional maturity because they don't want to be a mommy wife to a manchild to the point they would rather be single.
So yeah, I don't know what she is talking about when they say most husbands because most husbands of my married IRL friends and family all are that type of rare husband, maybe these women who wrote it just have friends with shitty husbands because I can assure you, especially these days that, that kind of man is the standard and all men should strive to be that rare unicorn of a husband these women think barely exists.

It tells you to treat your man like a customer in that to let him be right (I will get to why him having the final say is definitely a big issue in the chapter that talks about this more). Also, you are treating your husband like a customer? What are you a prostitute?

Most of the differences that she mentioned that men and women are different are simply due to socialization, not biological in any manner.

Men are perfectly capable of doing those things, it is just that we literally don't expect them to and that is why they aren't good at it. It isn't like having a penis means that you are incapable of carrying some of the emotional and mental load of a relationship. It only appears that way because men were never expected to carry the load in relationships or do a lot of multitasking so their skillset with that kind of stuff is weak, but is more than capable of getting stronger. Men are also expected to not show negative emotions except anger else be labeled as less of a man and expect their wives to be their only source of emotional comfort because we labeled most male friendships as "gay" if they do any emotional confiding or anything like that.

Also, if you follow the rules, the guy will not leave you and reciprocate in response. Which, again, most of the time it is woman divorcing the man and not the other way around. The women who are reading this are the ones who are unhappy, not typically the guy. Also, if the guy is an entitled, emotionally immature manchild, he probably won't reciprocate and treat you better, just saying.

Oh... oh... this is golden

Soooooo... you guy divorced during the writing of this book... why should I listen to you again?

 

it was written by an accountant and a journalist
I want to see a relationship manual written by an accountant, LOL
also, why are we approaching a relationship manual like fundamentalists approach their holy books? I'm not a relationship expert but I'm pretty sure human relations are too complicated to have clear cut rules

 

why do relationships even need formal rules

relationships are not business partnerships

 

Yeah, I always roll my eyes at statements of "women are like this" or "men are like that" or other generalizations. I mean, people have a huge range of personalities and strengths and weaknesses and it isn't like women are just some big conglomerate that all behave the same way, same with men, men have just as wide of a range of personalities and differences.

I will probably do more of this a little later, I am also considering continuing my read through of the Gor books too which I think takes more priority

 

I just roll my eyes at ‘men are from Mars, women are from Venus’ or any similar statement. Men and women aren’t monolithic: they can be quite different in personality and views.

And - as already stated here - why should we follow these rules when the author’s own relationship didn’t work out?

I’m also imagining what it would’ve been like if Classic Chris came across this book.

 

There may still be some overall common traits but beyond them people are different.

That "How To Talk To Girls" book may have been better than that "The Rules" series.

 

‘Course it was, it was aimed at people with Chris’s mental age (i.e. elementary-school-age kids).

 

I am going to do a little aside and share a bit from the original Rules book on The Rules in high school. These were the rules my aunt though I should follow:

I agree, acne should be dealt with, but it should be for you and your skin health rather than for a guy. You seriously should be doing this all for you anyways. Also, don't use anything from Mary Kay, I had a really bad reaction to their Velocity line and it made my skin worse and use Proactive in moderation, seriously, that shit will dry your face out if you use it every day. Also, birth control can be an option.

Bitch, do you realize how expensive manicures are? Also, this assumes you have a car to go to these places.

I mean, from my experience, most guys dig chicks who like male dominated hobbies like anime and vidya and stuff and it makes you ten times hotter to them.

I can kind of see where this is coming from as far as have a life and put yourself out there, but the whole balancing a book on your head and looking directly in front of you? An autist would totally overdo this and it would look really awkward. I mean, if you try to put effort to stand up straight, then it looks unnatural. Kind of reminds me of how I was told to always make eye contact in an interview, but didn't mention that there is a happy medium to staring at your hands all the time to staring at the interviewer constantly into their soul.

I think this is fair advice. Telling a teen to wait until marriage or something is not effective obviously since most of the time they won't listen to that so a harm reduction approach is definitely good. She also does say to wait until you are more mature which I do agree too, not necessarily until marriage, but I do think it is wise to wait until you are an adult.

I think exercise is good, but again, do it because it is healthy and for you, not to get a guy. Plus, with swimming, you usually are focusing on doing laps and have your ears under water to have a real conversation. I also laugh at the tennis camp one. I am pretty sure if you are only going there to meet guys and not because you like tennis, guys can see that from a mile away the desperation. Plus, if you are not athletic usually yourself, you probably won't be as compatible with them especially if you are usually a couch potato.

Ummmmm... seriously, check your privilege, sometimes you aren't from a rich family to afford the latest fashion and clothes. Also, no, I don't like boys wearing the latest styles. I didn't like guys in polo shirts back then and I don't now, usually because those guys are total meatheads and I prefer more nerdy types. Instead of telling you to dress like the popular kids, why don't you just don't dress frumpy and find your own style. If you are goth, dress goth, you might scare away the jocks, but the goth dudes will like you which are people that you will be compatible with no doubt. If you are a weeb, dress like a weeb and you will attract other weebs. You know?

I never understood the point of prom honestly.

This is solid advice. Yeah, people change A LOT during college and you shouldn't base your plans for after high school on a guy. I honestly have nothing to say about this rule because it is definitely the one that is probably the best one out of the lot.

 

If I was a girl and received this book I would be pretty pissed off.

 

What if Chris had found a copy of this.

 

Just hopefully you don't have to take your mother along with you.

 

If a guy takes his mom to the prom, that may be a sign that his life is on a course towards fail.

 

Take Care of Yourself and Other Rules for Dating in College

Yup, I am doing the chapter about dating in college next!

Ummmm... yeah, that is one I agree with definitely. Seriously, stalking is not cool.

I feel like these rules are based on true stories. Do these women who read the book not have common sense not to stalk guys hoping senpai will notice them?

Ummmmm...

Uhhhhh... yeah, no, don't research on what he likes without actually asking him is... yeah, no, that is also stalkery. As for wearing clothes to attract men? I mean, I guess if that is your goal? I just know in college that sometimes it can be impractical to completely dress up every day, but I can see how that can help your mood if you take time to take care of yourself and don't let yourself go during college.

yeah, I have to agree with this one. If you get into groups or hobbies for the sole sake of finding a boyfriend, men can smell that desperation from a mile away. I've seen women do this and it never ends well for them once the guys realize they are only in it to get laid. Also, yeah, don't do drugs just because some guy you like does it, again, that should be obvious. I really do have a feeling these are based on actual anecdotes of women doing these things that they have heard or their own personal experiences.

Again, similar to the last point, guys can smell desperation from a mile away.

Yeah, this is fair, this is true especially with meeting people on the internet

Now here is what you should do!

Well yeah, that is what college is there for

Did you hear that fat people? You won't get a boyfriend if you are fat! I will say though that if you are a bit chubby, you may probably be more compatible to guys that are also overweight versus really fit athletic ones just because of lifestyle. If you are a couch potato, you will probably be more compatible with a couch potato than someone who is really active that you can barely keep up with. It's still worth trying to be healthy, but motivation should come from doing it to improve yourself rather than external factors like finding a guy.

That's it's, just wear makeup. Not what kind of makeup (most guys from my experience prefer more natural looks), just wear makeup

Preferably? From what you guys said about not doing stuff solely for the purpose of meeting guys, you could have just say, ones that you are actually interested in and just leave the preferably out.

Ummmm... what kind of major or school are you going to? I often didn't have the luxury to do that with all of the shit I had to do

Again, I agree with this, seriously, you are going to college to learn.

Most of these I agree with surprisingly, though I am surprised that a lot of these had to be said

 

I get what they mean by extracurriculars that (might not) interest you
you might join a student organization that can help you for networking for your major and future job but isn't particularly interesting (like a financial management or economics club)
or you join a club that you're mildly interested in but your friends are wild about

 

Yeah, but that example with your major is still relevant to you and you have a purpose for joining other than meeting guys and you are still mildly interested.

I have to say, most of the advice they give to college girls is stuff I completely agree with.

 

Something tells me men aren't expected to follow 'rules' this stringent.
Something also tells me that most of the copies of this book have ended up in landfill by now.

 

or thrift stores and second hand bookshops
IIRC this came out in the 90s and there are probably a ton of relationship advice websites made by actually qualified professionals (people with degrees in psychology and social work, not accounting and journalism)

 

Wouldn't be surprised, I like getting second-hand stuff and books like this often show up there.

And that's another key word: ADVICE. Not hard-and-fast 'rules', but guidelines to follow that may help you out, rather than one way to act in any situation - like Chris's firm belief that sex should always come on the third date. Life isn't always that simple.