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ITT Fialovy reads Gor and other John Norman books so you don't have to

Discussion in 'Books' started by Fialovy, Aug 28, 2022.

  1. Fialovy

    Fialovy Skeleman Warrior

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    So, the Gor books. For those of you who don't know, they are a series of fantasy books by John Norman inspired by the Barsoom series of books by Edgar Rice Burroughs. Basically, a man gets transported to a planet counter to Earth controlled by these alien bug people who banned all guns and associated technology. It is a world where men are men and women are well... not men. At least that is what I have heard. I have also heard that it is quite laughable whenever he tries to write in the perspective of a woman as well and it is like he has never talked to a woman in depth for more than a few minutes.

    While these books may be very sexist against women, I'd also argue John Norman was also sexist against men in that one time a friend of mine and I once read through a sex manual the author made called Imaginative Sex (which I may talk about here when I am done since it is quite something) and he basically believed all men have this inner desire to rape women... yes... he actually believed all men fantasizes about raping women which... tells you something about the author.

    Not to mention it spawned a weird BDSM sex cult around the books that is so bad that even the mainstream BDSM community wants nothing to do with them known as the Goreans where they basically reenact the slave girl stuff from the books.

    I have the audio books online via my public library which is good because I am not paying for them, even used. Bad news though is that they don't have all of the Gor books available and they aren't in order. From what I have heard after the sixth or so book, things start going downhill really quick and there was a hiatus in the 90s or so where there wasn't any new books and after the hiatus the quality got even more abysmal, especially as Norman has gotten significantly older.

    So yeah, I will start reading the books tomorrow starting with the first one and post my thoughts after each chapter.
     
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  2. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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  3. Fialovy

    Fialovy Skeleman Warrior

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    Okay, so Chapter 1 of the first book...

    So the hero Tarl Cabot who tells you he is in no way related to the one explorer of the same name and goes like two paragraphs explaining how unique and special his name is and then another couple telling everyone how smart and educated he is being a college professor and all.

    So with the semester done, he goes camping in the mountains and finds a metal glowing envelope and after spending a while trying to figure out how to open it, it turns out it is from his father and then he all the sudden freaks out and starts running then suddenly a ship appears and takes him to what I assume is Gor and the chapter ends there.

    I mean, for the first chapter of a book, he could probably do away with all of the stuff about his name and just got to the fact that he is a college professor on a camping trip to celebrate the end of the semester and got right to the interesting part that makes people want to read, but no. Seriously, the whole bragging about the name part was what initially made me close this book for a while when I tried reading it in the past if I remember. Also, the ship appearing happens very suddenly, maybe not so suddenly since there was that envelope that was weird but it was like, he was running through the woods in the middle of the night freaking out and then... BOOM! air ship.

    I will try to read one to two chapters a day, unfortunately, turns out that it isn't in audiobook format like I thought which is a shame, oh well. That just means I have to suffer more.
     
  4. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    Homer Simpson - Boring - YouTube
     
  5. SonichuShoes

    SonichuShoes Well-Known Member

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    I remember Second Life of all places having an active Gor fan community back in the day. Although it makes more sense to me hearing that it's associated with a BDSM community.
     
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  6. Fialovy

    Fialovy Skeleman Warrior

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    I'm still really pissed that it turns out it isn't the ebook and only the audio book. It makes it so much more difficult for me.

    I have read a little bit into Chapter 2 so far and it looks like he wakes up dressed all barbarian and shit after not remembering his voyage to Gor. I will continue to read later this evening.
     
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  7. Fialovy

    Fialovy Skeleman Warrior

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    So, Chapter 2 of Gor.

    Cabot wakes up after boarding the ship in a medieval looking room on a table dressed in furs and shit which implies someone stripped him naked and dressed him while he was passed out. His father walks in the room after he wakes up. Wait a minute? Did his father dress him? I mean, he is his dad, but it is still pretty weird if he is a fully functioning adult and not like a kid or disabled or something. Anyways, they reminisce about Cabot's mother and then he tells them that he is in Gor!

    Gor apparently means "Home Stone" in every language of this world which... either the planet is super small and they are all in the same language family or it is from one language and the other ones use them as loan words. Whatever. Apparently these stones are protected by the cities and villages and they represent ownership of land and his father has a small Home Stone of his own. From what I am understanding, Gor is this game of capture the flag where people try to fight other people to capture each village and land's home stones or something.

    A slave girl which is noted she is one by the collar comes in and his dad (yes, his FATHER) says he can have the night with her. Yes, this is his FATHER that says "yeah, son, I have a woman you can fuck." seriously, what the hell. Cabot says no to that offer not knowing what he meant which... WHAT? Is he autistic? What do you think he meant when he asked if you want to spend the night with a scantily clad woman with a collar? Seriously?

    He then talks about the Priest Kings which not much is known about them but they are technically the gods of this world that control everything and have technology beyond anything imaginable (at least in the 60s when this book was written.) Also, there is this legend where some men when they get older go to the mountains to seek immortality from the Priest Kings and never return. Anyone who read the Barsoom books would know this is literally a rip off of the River of Issus where the martians go when they are old enough go down the river to go to paradise (spoiler: they actually die horribly).

    Also, the Priest Kings limit the technology of the world and forbid any guns or cars or anything and basically force everyone to stay in a medieval stasis, which just seems like a bullshit cop out to make it so that Gor cannot change and evolve overtime which is a common problem with a lot of setting that take place over centuries, especially since a lot of authors are really scared of that because medieval inspired settings are "cool" and stuff and want to keep it that way. This just seems like a lazy cop out for Norman, especially since his main inspiration, the Barsoom Series had guns, yes, these solar guns and it was perfectly fine and didn't detract from the setting.

    Also, using bullshit, the Priest Kings move the planet regularly from star to star using bullshit not to destroy life on it and right now it is counter to Earth and with their bullshit magic, somehow, no astronomers on Earth notice this at all.

    The chapter ends with a breaking of the fourth wall informing that everything he is writing is of his own experience, yes, no shit, we know that because it is in first person perspective dummy.
     
  8. Fialovy

    Fialovy Skeleman Warrior

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    Chapter 3

    It all the sudden jarringly cuts to Cabot talking to some scribe guy named Torm, when is this happening? Last chapter he was literally talking to his dad, what is going on now? Was this a few days later? A week? Immediately after dinner? What is going on? How did he meet this Torm guy? Was it through his father? There is a very detailed description of his clothes and that he is smart and loves books, and is kind. Which that is another thing I forgot, the Priest Kings allow certain technology to develop like agriculture and medicine which seems to be a cop out to not have to worry about historical inaccuracies and all of the not-fun medical stuff that comes from fighting with swords. Apparently Torm is teaching Cabot the Gorean alphabet.

    Ah, I see, he is basically intensively studying for several the Gorean language or what I assume to be the main lingua franca? Wouldn't it be helpful to learn if he could at least practice with other people rather than being holed up into his room? That is at least the best way to learn a language from my experience. Answer? Translation machine helps him practice conversation. Though he only needs to study the main language because he could just use the translation for all of those pesky dialects and minority languages, but the translation machine can't translate to English so he needs to learn standard Gorean also while the translation machine does get the job done, the machine translation like most modern machine translation is very, very literal and loses some of the nuance... just like in real life almost sixty years later! At least he predicted the future. Also, some of the minority languages he notes have sounds that sound very animalistic that he didn't realize the human tongue could make which... kinda racist...

    More expositions in that Gor also has a caste system where the lower castes are withheld a lot of knowledges and prevented from any sort of power. It isn't just birth though, if you show promise, you can move up a caste, but if he is incompetent as a kid, he is lowered one. Gor is run by City-states. Gor is basically made up of various people from various time periods on Earth and other planets who then had kids and it became its own culture. He does note that he has barely seen any women (GEE I WONDER WHY?)

    Cut to him not learning how to fight by a guy who is also named Tarl (Tarl doesn't quite strike me as a popular name, even for the 1960s). Of course, his instructor tells him to never surrender and it is better to be slain like a warrior than to run, which... okay? He also sounds kind of like an asshole teacher since he is depicted as constantly screaming at him.

    Also, armor is forbidden by the Priest Kings because they want that aesthetic of shirtless buff dudes in swords and furs fighting each other with giant swords and you can't have suits of armor which would ruin that! Helmets though are fine! The in-book reason is because something-something "survival of the fittest" but that excuse just seems lame because isn't armor adaptation in of itself? Nah, the real reason is AeStHeTiC!

    So training montage is over and he is given a tarn-goad which I don't know what it is, but from the description it sounds like one of those prank joy buzzers for some reason. Wat? There is this tarn thing called a tarn which I think is a bird of some sort? Is it like some electric bird like a Pokemon? They are also big enough to ride, maybe they are like Pokemon, man, I would rather be playing Legends Arceus right now...

    Oh no, wait, the tarn-goad is not part of the bird, it is just the shocking collar used to tame these birds so yes, it is a joy buzzer, I was right. Also, these birds are carnivorous, which, must be expensive feeding them. There is a reason why the only domesticated carnivore is a cat, because they are relatively small and don't require a lot of meet compared to larger carnivores. The fact that these birds are dangerous I would understand why you would use punishment as opposed to positive reinforcement because shocking them is kind of mean.

    The chapter ends with one of these tarns attacking Cabot
     
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  9. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    A smarter way to justify "medieval stasis" is to make up that "magic" is better than technology.

    Like why invent cars when everyone can teleport or fly around quick on brooms or flying carpets?
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2022
  10. Fialovy

    Fialovy Skeleman Warrior

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    yeah, but magic is still technically a science in its own right, people would still be able to find new applications for magic and making new magical devices and magic-based technology and stuff.

    Anyways, I might read another chapter, this next one is pretty short
     
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  11. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    Yeah, but the non-magical tech could "atrophy" or stay medieval, while it's magic that advances.

    Kind of like how "magical" or "psionic" beings like the Protoss Archon can be physically weak in vidya.
     
  12. Fialovy

    Fialovy Skeleman Warrior

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    Yeah, still, there is no magic in Gor, only technology from the Priest Kings that is run by so much bullshittium that it might as well be magic
     
  13. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    So "Gor" means "家石" then? That's like "Ieishi" (?) or "Jiāshí".

    Yeah, but the "Gor" story may not be exactly a "smart" story...
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2022
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  14. Fialovy

    Fialovy Skeleman Warrior

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    Chapter 4

    So our hero as we left off is in a tough spot with a birb, but he tased it so now he is fine. He then precedes to ride the thing. It was mentioned that Gor has multiple moons which... the tide on that world sounds like a nightmare if that is the case. Him and his fighting teacher who has zero volume control decide to race and Cabot wins. Apparently he has the bestest, most super specialest bred birb specifically for him why? He is the hero of course.

    Oh yeah, also Goreans often have Gorean names called "use-names" (not to be confused with usernames!) that they use in public. The lower castes are told that it is because enemies knowing your real name have power over you, but the higher castes know this as superstition and it is just a way to keep the lower castes well, low.

    Anyways, Cabot is then told the next day why he was brought here. Before that happens, there is apparently an alarm clock that makes your bed cold when it is time to get up so you have to get out of bed which, sounds... so... evil... Is there a warm setting for hot days? He also has a hangover because screamy guy pressured him into getting drunk and ogle at stripper ladies that are "bred like animals for passion" and he describes the looks of the hooker slave girl he fucked saying he was young and he reminded him of a cheetah. What is that supposed to mean?

    Anyways, they go sit down in a room with the city council. He goes through some initiation process into the Warrior Caste where he has to say a few vows before the council. Nepotism is sure nice when it benefits you because if it wasn't for his dad being high up in the cast system, he probably would be stuck in the lower castes.

    Anyways, he is then sent on a mission to the city of Ar to steal Ar's Home Stone and that ends the chaper.
     
  15. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    poor birb :confused:
     
  16. Fialovy

    Fialovy Skeleman Warrior

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    It still confuses me when he says the girl looks like a cheetah...
     
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  17. ICanFeelTheCosmos0704

    ICanFeelTheCosmos0704 friend of little cat

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    this book was written around the same time as Dune
    we all know which one is the superior series
     
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  18. ToroidalBoat

    ToroidalBoat ¿qué?

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    Gor?

    (But seriously, Dune inspired Star Wars - I think - and WH40K, while Gor didn't AFAIK.)
     
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  19. Fialovy

    Fialovy Skeleman Warrior

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    Chapter 5

    So, Cabot heads off to Ar on his birb, he is given all of the supplies needed for the trip including... a bound, drugged slave girl who actually has a name this time which is Sana. She wakes up from the drug when he takes off and he unties her disgusted at the thought of her bound even if it was supposed to be part of a plan to conquer Ar. She does have a backstory being captured from raiders from Ar so she doesn't like Ar which is why she volunteered in place of another slave girl.

    Apparently they are going to try to do this during a harvest festival. The plan is to assassinate the daughter of the leader of Ar and then the slave girl will take the place of the daughter and they will take the Home Stone while she distracts. As soon as she is discovered she is not the daughter, she is to kill herself, but Cabot doesn't want her to die and it gets really male-gazey as he admires how pretty m'lady is.

    She says women aren't permitted to usually ride birbs in saddles. Why? Is it because they might break their hymen? I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Anyways, she is surprised he treats her this way and he gets really weirded out on him calling her master and he decides not to go to Ar, but to Thentis where she is originally from. She keeps insisting not to, which, damn, this woman has major Stockholm Syndrome because she basically begs him to fuck her and he declines like a supreme gentlesir while at the same time lusting after her thinking how she has the "endearing vanity of the young and beautiful of her sex" and stuff like that

    He then decides that maybe he should man up and go through with the plan because it might not be a good idea to become an Outlaw so quickly like that. Suddenly there is a sky battle with three raiders from Ar where they shoot arrows and stuff at each other on birds, the fight scenes at least are decent, but anyways, he defeats them and somehow makes it to Ar without alerting authorities somehow as far as we know which you think the sky battle he had would.

    He then ends with describing Ar as this amazing "jewel of a city" among Gor, but he doesn't explain why it is such a great city at all. Is it because it is big? Is it because it was pretty? What is it? Anyways, he is at Ar now.

    So far this book is readable, I know for sure though that, that might not be the case.
     
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  20. Fialovy

    Fialovy Skeleman Warrior

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    Chapter 6

    So, when he arrives at Ar, he gets into a fight with a dude over parking for his bird and then he goes and sneakily makes his way into the room where the stone is, but a robed woman catches him and tries to stop him and she runs after him and grabs onto his birb for dear life and there are guards on the roof shooting arrows at him and stuff. He wants to get the girl off his saddle, but can't bring himself to do that, still, I wonder...

    Where is Sana in all of this? What the heck is she doing?

    Anyways, he manages to get the heck out of Ar with the Home Stone with the robed girl hanging off his saddle. As he heads back to camp (is that where Sana is?), he tells the girl he will take her back to Ar. (HOW?! HE LITERALLY STOLE THE HOME STONE! HE IS WANTED BY EVERYONE THERE!). Still, he described her body as "her trembling, innocent body" which... gives me the heebie jeebies. How old is this chick anyways? Not that it would matter since it would still be creepy either way, but still. Either way, he falls for her ruse and she pushes him off the saddle and he lands in front of a bunch of giant spiders.

    Oh yeah, don't worry, the spiders can talk and they are pretty chill and are happy he stole the Home Stone of Ar, even though he lost it when he fell. The spider takes him to the swamp to look for the Home Stone and sees the robed girl who also fell in trouble as a swamp monster known as a tharlarion tries to devour her. He then fights off the monster and saves her only for her to run away, but don't worry, spider monster dude Nar catches her and she is very much pissed refusing to answer any questions until spooder dude clenches down on her and she admits his birb killed another birb and ran away with the stone. Cabot doesn't know how he will get the stone now.

    Still... WHERE THE HELL IS SANA?


    I have a few thoughts so far in the book. It seems to me that the author's main theme is "Nice Guys Finish Last" seriously, this dude tries to be a nice guy and respectful to women and always gets screwed over as a result, of course, like every "nice guy" he can't help but lust after these women with some of the ways he thinks about them.

    Anyways, good night, I am done
     
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